things that are hard to forget
1. That V took all our pictures of the two of us down and put them away.
2. That V said she hated her life a few months ago.
3. That V told me she wished this all didn't bother me so much.
4. How V said it was different to have a same sex extracurricular lover than an opposite sex one.
5. How V gets all worried or weird when we start having lots of sex and cuts it off.
6. The look in her eyes when she's gaga over a girl.
7. When she accused me of trying to ruin her first lesbian experience when I told her how much it actually hurt me.
8. The fact that she doesn't seem to have a direct answer for me regarding her future with a woman.
9. How the game plan keeps changing.
10. That she said how her hope and her life would end if I left her.
two things occur to me...
The first is that V is setting new parameters for me. When she first started exploring (which, I admit, I DID encourage her to do,) she set parameters for me to abide by. Mainly that I had to sit home and carry on as usual while she figured things out. No new female friends, relationships, etc. In all, the parameters were unequal and unfair, but more importantly,
I was unhappy with them. So, it took several weeks or maybe months for me to finally decide that she wasn't going to do that to me. I then told her a few weeks ago that I wasn't going to live within those parameters.
So, now she's changed the plan. Last week she said that she's not pursuing any other relationship - therefore I shouldn't either. It occured to me last night during a long bike ride that
these are the new parameters. Well, goddammit - I'm not going to be boxed in again. I can't carry on my life, my friends, my relationships based on the level of
her openness. I just won't do that, especially because one particular female friend seems to need me (yes, it seems a bit of a 'one-sided' friendship but that's okay.) And, I won't cut off the friend or apologize to V. for being with her.
Number two: It occurs to me that every female in my life is in the middle of a crisis! (This is all the females that I see in person on a regular basis.) LOL! (crazy laugh) Oh my.
so... whatya think?
oh, you don't know me
I'm reading an article online called,
"Can you ever really know someone?" (don't ask how I ended up there..) and it occurs to me that I don't really know V anymore. Nor, perhaps, does she know me.
Take this scenario: I came back from my business trip, and had bought V. a couple little things: some all natural facial soap and a little tiny soveneir from NY. Now, normally, this would fine as V has never been crazy about buying things for the sake of buying things when I'm out of town. And, we are rather tight in the pocketbook right now. So - that's what I brought home.
But this time, she was disappointed. "Why didn't you bring home something romantic?" she asked. She admitted that I knew her so well that the gifts I brought home would have been the things she would have picked out if she had done it herself. Still, she took it as a sign that I was disconnected from her.
And, she's right. In fact, I had disconnected from her before I left on the trip. Then, making a connection with this facinating person while I was gone. V says she could tell that I had made a connection once I returned. (how is this possible??)
Anyway, a couple things stick in my head from my talk with V. the other night: One, was the fact that V. wouldn't say she was done with women (indicating to me that this is just a lull in the storm) and the other is how she told me she "cut off" our sex life last summer after we were getting all hot and heavy when she came out to me. She thought I was just interested in sex because the idea of her with a woman turned me on... and that's it. So, (as in other times in our marriage when we had good sex) she turned it off. That really, really disappoints and saddens me.
The article above mentions how you need to "want" to really get to know your spouse. I wonder if either of us want that. Do we really WANT to know each other?
hmmm...
so, she says she's back
It's been a nice weekend... that is after getting past the problems with V's new job that apparently SUCKS! She really wants to go back to school... and the fact that she can't sends her into a deep depression. So, after doing some things for herself to get that work situation under control, the rest of the weekend was about us. Or... sort of. I spent all Saturday working and part of Sunday too. Too damned busy at work... but I do like it because it does keep my mind off home life - and I really enjoy my work. I did spent two great days last week with my daughter and I think it really helped me bond with her.
Alright, so after looking over our finances, the discussion turned to us and whether or not I wanted to be with V. I told her all about the separation scenario - which scared her. She told me about how she doesn't want anything to do with a woman. She doesn't need that - she's done that - she knows what it's like now, but stopped short of saying "it was just a phase and I'm over it now." "Relationships with women take so much effort," she said. Well, yeah!
She said that we've been through so much together: job loss, death, moving around the country and just trying to establish ourselves. (That's true.) We do have an incredible history together, good and bad. She also said that she just wouldn't want to reestablish all that again with someone else and that she wants us to grow old and be financially independent together. She doesn't want one or both of us to be struggling in our old age.
Then she wanted to know all the people who I have told about her SSA. She convinced me taht it's her right to know who knows her "deepest darkest secret." (of course, I felt like crap after she said that...) So, I told her the five people I've told... including the newest person who knows... a collegue of mine that I have met recently and grown extremely fond of. Of course, that really worried V, as she says she could tell I had made a connection with this person after a recent business trip. In fact, she was and is very concerned about this business trip and what it and future ones will mean for the two of us.
Anyway, we left the conversation with V professing her love and committment and me telling her I love her and agreeing to try and plug back into the relationship (establishing the bond - I think she said.) I do love her, and I think it would be foolish to unplug right now. Besides, divorce or separation has tremendous consequences on our daughter.
Regardless, I still feel at this moment that my heart has changed. But, I also think I MUST give this situation time. Time for me to evaluate, time to give things a chance, time to make it clear how I feel about things and the persons in my life.
so... whatya think?
hugging her anyway
I still hug her when she wants it. It would just be mean not to. But, is that sending her the wrong message? I find myself wanting to help her, hold her, comfort her. I do still love her.
Right now, she's looking for either black or white. That's not how I feel about her. It's sort of charcoal.
I am thinking of getting a couple books on how to sort things out when you are sitting on the fence.
V is having a bad day (after the previous two bad days) at her new job. She's trying very hard I think, but walked into a cluster-fuck that's she's trying to sort out.
M.
what do you smell like?
It was my birthday, so we all went to dinner. Which is nice, but I have always wished that V would really really plan a cool day for me. It's usually dinner out, or she makes me dinner. Which is nice... but we never have money for her to buy me anything. (Last year, on her birthday, I bought her something - little, not expensive - and gave her a "week of mind-blowing sex." But, who's keeping track...)
Anyway, we both met after work and thus, both drove home. I tried calling her cell after I took care of a work call and she was on the phone with her girl, as she calls every wednesday. Finally, after I had been home ahead of her for 15 minutes, I called to see where she was at. Well, she had gotten donuts for me (and ate half of them on the way home) which I didn't really want after a big dinner.
Later, in bed, she gets another call from her friend. Her upbeat (rather cute) voice that I could hear asked V, "what do you smell like?" Well, I almost burst out laughing - V acted a little irritated and I just turned up my Ipod so I couldn't hear.
V. told me again this am how she's not interested in anything else but having this person as a friend. Maybe so, I wonder what will happen though after their weekend together. I guess I'm waiting to see. So, V tells me how she hasn't changed, she feels the same way about me and (in a phone message a bit later) tells me how the ball is in my court. I somehow need to prove to her that I still want her.
...problem is... I don't know if I do or not.
oh and... last night... more bulimia....
:(
can i figure out what to say
The time is coming... I'm afraid there will be a showdown.
I guess I've started pulling away from her. And, for whatever reason, she seems to know something is up. This is the first time that V has started saying things to me like "you just want to play the field" and "do you love me?" Sigh... this drives me nuts.
Yes, I guess I would like to "play the field." I would like to have the freedom to experience new relationships, but not take time away from my daughter. In fact, I can't even see myself dating anybody. That would probably be bad for my daughter. I could still be over at the house a lot, helping out, staying with my little girl. V would be much, much more free to experience relationships with women. Lesbians don't like married women, you know...! (not to mention that women don't like married men!)
And, of course I love her. I just think it's in a different way than before. Remember when I realized that my marriage I thought I had was over? Well, it is. Things ARE different now. And, V still loves women. That hasn't changed. I think she's just afraid that I'll leave her and she'll be f****d.
So how about this scenario: V and I decide to separate... not legally but just in our minds. I share a place with my friend downtown and can stay there a couple nights a week. I will still be helping out with our little girl and V can still do her things in the evenings (running, etc) and we'll just work things out. Just a couple nights a week I have the option to do something else. V then can also go out and explore other women and see if she can make that work.
Maybe we'll decide it sucks and get back together. Or, maybe we'll have figured out how to live fulfilling lives with other relationships and still get together the three of us for family gatherings.
I suppose my thoughts are a bit jaded as I am quite taken with someone I met about a week ago. One the one hand, I don't know her very well, but on the other - we have talked for several hours about every topic imaginable... including religion, politics and sex. I like her an awful lot and that complicates things.
And briefly, F is going back to her husband. He moved back in - details are vague but they're giving it another shot. The bad part is that I cannot call her anymore and barely get emails... her H knoweth not what she do with me... So, that sucks.
But time will tell all - and soon. V is still going to see her friend in a few weeks (and I'm still not sure their relationship just yet, maybe they don't know either). And, I'll decide what exactly I'm going to say to V.
If I tell her about my scenario, I expect V to fight me on it. Unless she comes home from her trip head over heels.
Bottom line, there's this ache in my gut right now.
so... whatya think?
So, am I with you?
I don't think I"m wishy washy, but after reading my post from yesterday it seems harsh. I don't dislike V at all. I guess it's that the situation is stable: some sex, companionship, friendship.
I guess there's nothing significant to make me want to change my situation right now. Nothing so bad at home to make me want to leave. Nothing so good elsewhere to make me want to leave.
Seems like I've focused less on the polyamory / multiple lovers aspect of things as of late. Maybe I should revisit that.
so... whatya think?
m.
so are you with me...?
Have you ever just wanted more? You like what you
have, in fact, you LOVE what you have. But, you just
want more.
I think that's what is happening with V. She, I
think, loves me. Well, I know she does... I think it's as a deep friendship at
least. Maybe even classified as a deep friendship
with benefits. After all, we have a child together,
faced some difficulty in our lives and have moved all
over the country together. We've discovered more
about ourselves and each other.
Recently, I've told V. that I support (and in fact,
encourage) her in her quest to explore, discover and
satisfy her need to be with a woman. She says it's
not about sex... but it is certainly about intimacy
and all the infatuation that goes along with the
discovery of a new person.
Well, I understand that. It's easy to get caught up
in the excitement of a new friend/lover.
V. is going up to see her new friend (meet for the
first time actually) in a few weeks. They are both
trying to figure out their issues (although V's
friend's husband isn't nearly as "progressive" as I in
this situation.) V has said she isn't interested in
physical intimacy with this girl... but I wonder. If
it happens like last time, I'll hear about it when she
gets home. I'm ready this time.
Our home life is okay these days. We get along and
are good friends most of the time. Sex is occasional
and pretty much the usual (some would say that oral on
her and then a nice fuck is more than "usual" but
that's the way it is for us.) However, we do bicker
and argue. And, I don't think V has any capability to
apologize about anything. It's always my fault, or we
just focus on my anger or my reaction instead of her
too. And, after ten years... I'm just weary. I'm not
the one who has changed all this, she has. And that's
okay, but I guess I just expect that SHE would be the
one to put forth a little extra effort. Instead, the
attitude seems to be, "I'll do whatever I want, and
you just pretend like everything's the same."
So, we had a pretty good discussion the other night.
V asked about F, and what she was up to. Simply put,
she's working on divorcing her H. Of course, I talk
to her pretty frequently, so it isn't that simple.
Anyway, V and I get into a discussion and I put out
some new vibes: I like F a lot! I think V should go
be with a woman. I set a tone of not being all hung
up and insecure about her and her other relationships,
trips, friends and such. And, I reiterated that I
would be responsible for making myself happy.
She seemed content with that but wanted to make sure I
wasn't going to run off and be the man to someone
else's family. (I couldn't do that to my little
daughter.) For now, more waiting. And, some of my
own exploration and discovery. What do I want,
ultimately? Not another family. No more kids. I
love my daughter...LOVE HER! But, that's all I want.
Just special little her!!
I still love V too. It's just a different feeling -
it take time to get used to the fact that your "one
and only" isn't really your one and only.
Which brings up the concept of polyamory or loving
more than one person. I think it's society that says
you can't love or be with more than one person. I
think you can successfully love more than one partner,
including sex. It's taken a while for me to come to
that conclusion - but I think it is definitely
possible.
Theoretically, it will work. Logistically, I'm not
sure.
matt.
so... whatya think?
